A mother is sitting at a picnic table holding a toddler when she’s confronted by two teen girls who are wanting to fight her.
The mother remains calm, until finally, one of the aggressors grabs her by the hair, pulling her off the table. This caused the toddler to fall and hit his head on the concrete. The primary attacker pummels the mother with her fists and feet while holding the victim by the hair. A young male dances within a couple of feet of the fight, and near the end of the video appears to join in on the assault.
If you’re a passerby with your concealed carry piece, do you intervene? Do you shoot?
Leave your thoughts in comments.
1. Do you intervene?
2. Would you be justified in drawing your CCW piece?
3. Would you be justified in shooting one or more of the attackers?
I’ll post my thoughts later.
Here’s the video. Language not safe for work.
That is so sad, you get the feeling the attack was planned by the back ground audio. It definitely justifies an intervention and a call to police at the minimum.
Makes one ponder the legalities of warning shots.
I would certainly intervene for the safety of the toddler at a minimum. But as well as this looked like a planned ambush. I would try an break up the fight without drawing, however if the “bystanders” (that were clearly involved in this ambush, as they were there to record it all) were to start to come at me for trying to break it up, then I might be so inclined to draw and issue loud and clear commands to stay back or I will protect myself.
1. Intervene? Damn right.
2. Draw? If verbal commands failed to slow the assault, you bet. From my class: A foot to the head is deadly force. Actually, I think one would have a case that pulling hair in such a manner as to rip the skin away could be a disfiguring injury – “great bodily injury”.
3. Shoot? Only if it got much worse, or they went after the baby.
If the crowd turned on me, they’d get a warning or two, then the loudest mouth would get two to the chest. At that point, I think the rest of them would run out of their shoes. I’ve got old age and some physical issues in my favor. And then there’s the group dynamic as well. It would be justified.
Fraught with danger to intercede. But the attack was vicious. I would be very reluctant to do more than yell at them to knock it off while calling 911.
My family comes before some teen girl getting her ass whooped.
Is this going to make it to the lame stream media as a hate crime?
Don’t hold your breath.
If you drew on them, and ended up having to shoot one of the black thugs, you’d probably find yourself in another George Zimmerman situation.
It’d be much worse… you’d instantly be branded “A racist, gun-toting foot soldier in the war on women”.
I wish there was a way to strip the media’s power to conduct character lynchings at will.
Would I intervene? Yes. Why? My measure of whether or not I’d intervene: If that was *my* daughter and grandchild, would I want someone to intervene? In this case, I’d be eternally grateful if it were.
Justified to use deadly force? Multiple attackers. Male vs. Female. Kicking the girl’s head. And as Sam noted, tearing out large chunks of scalp could reasonably be assumed to create a disfiguring injury. Check, check, check and check.
Would I fire? That would depend on the aggressors. If they find religion and get out of Dodge, or simply cease the attack, no. If the attack escalated, then yes as a shot presented itself.
If they turned their aggression on me, and advanced on me, I’d retreat and attempt to use obstacles and distance to give me time (and give the attacked girl time to flee). If they pursued me and swarmed me, then yes, someone or someone(s) would be sporting some new ballistic piercings before they got within 6-9′ of me. I carry 46 rounds for my primary everyday. That’s a lot of bubble gum to go around if they want to continue the attack. As one of our commenters noted on an earlier post: “I bet I’ve got more ammo than they have courage.” I think that’s classic when it comes to mob mentalities.
John
John, you use my criteria:
“Would I intervene? Yes. Why? My measure of whether or not I’d intervene: If that was *my* daughter and grandchild, would I want someone to intervene? In this case, I’d be eternally grateful if it were.”
If there’s time, call 911 first. Try to do it without the weapon, but when they turn on me, use it as justified.
Remember, we could be walking into a drug deal gone bad, some kind of setup, or such. And we don’t have the benefit of watching it from a safe computer screen. Real life happens quickly, and without you having full and complete information, so we do the best we can in the situation.
Looking at these and analyzing them in advance helps us clarify the thought process. Thanks for posting the video.
Intervene in a fistfight between teenagers with deadly force?
I hope y’all have good attorneys.
Tell the little instigator to knock it off and call 911. If this is the crappy part of town, cops won’t be far away.
…to clarify, I was just being a wise guy.
In reality, this is what pepper spray was invented for. And those of us carrying guns need to be carrying OC.
A bunch of black people attacking a white person, why isn’t this automatically declared a hate crime? If the positions were reversed all the race baiters would be screaming hate crime. And to attack a person holding an infant is just savagery, there is no justifying it. Time to wake up, the poor black population in this country is out of control. The level of violence and criminal behavior is spinning out of control.
It is just a matter of tie until some black youths pull this on a CCWer. There will be some dead thugs and Jesse an Al will be right there to scream “Trayvon!!!!”
Yeah, I would have considered shooting.
That idiot that pulled that young woman off the bench could have killed that child with the force of her attack.
Jon is this video new or old and have charges been filed against the attacker?
And what city is did this attack occur?
I looked at the video for a 2nd time that child could have been killed with the force of the attack.
Video was posted to LiveLeak June 23.
Location is unknown. You could probably research it.
Not my fight with the way things are going down after a shooting. If it was in fact my family then yes. Trouble is when you step into something like this then it’s on. What if they are armed ! I am not ready to lose everything I have worked my entire life for just to spend the remainder of it defending myself. What the hell is this woman doing in this park in the first place it appears this is a on going dispute. I know, I know she, we, everyone should be able to use a park but unfortunately this just isn’t the case anymore in this world we live in now. Be smart people it would be ahame to lose your CCW to something like this along with your FOID resulting in the fact when and if it’s your home, your granddaughter you are helpless to defend them.
There was a risk of the child being killed, period. I would have dialed 911, advised immediate help is needed, engaged, given verbal commands and then engaged any and all active threats accordingly. This wasn’t some teenage fight, this was criminal felony assault and endangerment to a child. Don, I would hope that if you witnessed this happening to a child you would stand up and defend said child. Would you want someone to just watch your child or grandchild die? I understand though, it’s hard to risk losing all of your “hard earned” possessions when the time to fight is at your door. I’m not worried about some permission slip over a person or persons life. Something tells me you would hesitate to actually fire when the moment of truth arrives, just based on your concern to lose everything. You might want to consider just having your weapons available at home and leave the fight to those who put life above possession! Courage has no value, yet is worth more than you can calculate! Semper Fi brothers and sisters!
Make no mistake I won’t leave my gun at home and further I won’t hesitate to fire so don’t judge me. I hate to be like this but society, the attorneys, and courts have shaped my thinking. I didn’t get my CCW to save the world I have mine for mine. I think of people like you as noble, and conmend you. Hopefully you can & will fire as you think !
Don, I can and have fired when necessary. However, I appreciate your perspective and respect your honesty. Stay safe brother!
Due to the probability of me being somewhere like this location where something like this act could take place is about zero, I can’t see myself ever having to make a decision. Situational awareness.