Welcome to GSL

This login is for the website administrators.

Please use the member login link in the main navigation bar to access the members sections.

Member Login
Lost your password?

Troy stands by their employee, Lon Horiuchi’s partner at Ruby Ridge! UPDATE #4.

August 22, 2013

Troy Industries really stepped hip deep in the kimchee with their hiring of Jody Weis as an instructor in their training division, Troy Assymetric.

Today, a day after Guns Save Life shared their new hire announcement of Weis with gun owners throughout the nation, Troy now claims Weis won’t be joining them after all.

Irrespective of their nuanced announcement – we can’t believe they would trumpet their excitement about bringing Jody Weis on board as an instructor if it wasn’t a done deal – we’re glad he’s gone and pleased we had a hand in wrecking his new job in the private sector.

One of our regular readers did some digging of his own and did a little research on another new member (at least until tomorrow?) of the Troy Assymetric staff.  Dale R. Monroe.

Yeah, that name didn’t sound familiar to us right away, but it did to our reader Kevin.

We are pleased to announce the appointment of Dale Monroe to our Troy Asymmetric Cadre of Instructors.  Dale brings nearly three decades of experience in the areas of SWAT, Incident Response, Tactical Training and Investigation to Troy.

Having previously served as the Tactical Commander/SWAT Senior Team Leader in the Los Angeles FBI Bureau, Dale also gleaned experience from his time in the Phoenix, Arizona and Quantico, Virginia Offices.  Highlights of his tenure include his oversight of the FBI’s Crisis Response/Tactical participation in two National level WMD exercises and coordinating their associated multi-million dollar budgets, and assisting in security coordination efforts for the 2002 Salt Lake City Olympic Games.  Perhaps most notably, Dale served as a Hostage Rescue Team (HRT) Tactical Operator on the nation’s only federal civilian counter-terrorism response team.

He holds degrees from both Hillsdale College and the University of Arizona as well as a certificate from the Naval Aviation Flight Training School in Pensacola, Florida.  In addition, Mr. Monroe served in the United States Marine Corps where he was deployed in two Western Pacific Tours.

To contact Dale or our other world-class instructors, call 413-788-4213 or use our contact form found here.

His bio at Troy was impressive but left out one huge aspect of Monroe’s career.

In reality, perhaps most notably Dale Monroe was Lon Horiuchi’s partner at Ruby Ridge.

Remember Ruby Ridge?

 

FBI snipers Lon Horiuchi and Dale Monroe tried to kill these men.  Judge, jury and executioner.

And Horiuchi just “accidentally” murdered Vicky Weaver.

And Dale Monroe said he was ready to take that same shot but Horiuchi fired first.

What a couple of shining examples of courage and bravery, right?  Shooting down a woman armed with nothing but an infant in her arms.

NOT!

Horiuchi and Monroe tried to kill two men who were ultimately acquitted of wrongdoing, except for some minor charges against Randy Weaver.

What happened to Horiuchi?

A bunch of nothing, sadly.

He should have met a rope the next morning, or life in prison, but he was from the anointed class of elites.

Randy Weaver eventually won a $3 million judgement against the government but that won’t bring back his wife.

Ruby Ridge Snipers Defend Their Actions in Front of Senate Panel

(LA Times via The Tech – Sept. 15, 1995) – FBI snipers Thursday defended their actions at the 1992 Ruby Ridge siege where a white separatist’s wife was killed, contending that danger to an FBI observation helicopter from armed men outside the separatist’s cabin justified opening fire.

But skeptical senators questioned whether permissive shoot-to-kill orders and exaggerated information about the threat of Randy Weaver led to an overreaction.

Dale R. Monroe, the partner of FBI hostage rescue team leader Lon Horiuchi – who fired the fatal shot – said he was preparing to fire but didn’t only because Horiuchi fired first.

Horiuchi invoked his Fifth Amendment protection against self-incrimination Tuesday after the Senate Judiciary subcommittee on terrorism refused to give him limited immunity from prosecution.

Lon Horiuchi executed Randy Weaver’s wife as she held a newborn baby during the Ruby Ridge siege.  And Dale Monroe was right there by his side ready to take that same shot.

In a battle of scumbags, I’m not sure which is worse, Jody Weis or Dale Monroe.

What is it with Troy Industries of late?

Is that Massachusetts water getting to them, or what?

In any event, it’s up to gun owners to make an informed decision if they want to do business with a company that hired Horiuchi’s partner from Ruby Ridge.  A partner that said he would have taken that same shot except Horiuchi fired first.

 

UPDATE

Hot off the presses from the Troy Industries Facebook page.

We thank everyone for their opinions on Dale Monroe. We are still reviewing Mr. Monroe’s relationship with Troy Asymmetric and are looking in to the claims that are being made online.

We have reviewed the 1995 Ruby Ridge Congressional testimony and found at 1:42:35 of the taping, it is indeed Ed Wenger who says he would have shot, had Special Agent Horiuchi not shot first. http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/67153-1

The attribution of the statement on gunssavelife.com to Mr. Monroe is incorrect. After reviewing the testimony, we are confident that you, too, will find that it is indeed Wenger that made the statement, not Monroe.

Monroe was an FBI HRT member assigned a mission which turned tragic. We are saddened by the events at Ruby Ridge and recognize the significance of the tragedy. If you’ve never worn a uniform, you might not understand why Monroe was in the situation he was in, but if you have worn a uniform, you know how it is to follow orders in a fluid situation.

We’re weighing a difficult decision with many facets and things to consider. One thing we know for sure: Mr. Monroe did not state that he would have fired first. We do hope you will take the time to review all of the available materials on Ruby Ridge and Dale Monroe, and welcome your comments, as they will most certainly help us to reach a final, informed decision.

 

We stand by our initial report as it cited a report initially published by the LA Times and picked up on the wire services by the MIT student newspaper, The Tech.

Here’s a .pdf of the hard-copy version.

“Just following orders” is no excuse, Mr. Troy Industries.

Read the case Idaho v. Horiuchi.

Assuming the facts alleged by the state, this is not a case where a law enforcement agent fired his weapon under a mis- taken belief that his fellow agents or members of the public were in immediate danger. Rather, a group of FBI agents for- mulated rules of engagement that permitted their colleagues to hide in the bushes and gun down men who posed no imme- diate threat.

Such wartime rules are patently unconstitutional for a
police action. As soon as the incident was over, the FBI dis-
owned the rules and disciplined the officers who approved
them. The incident led to a lengthy investigation by the DOJ
Office of Professional Responsibility; Congress itself con-
ducted extensive hearings and published a bipartisan report
that was highly critical of the FBI in general and Horiuchi in
particular.28 There is nothing run of the mill about this case,

…After carefully reviewing the record, we cannot agree with the district court that Agent Horiuchi’s use of deadly force against Harris and, by extension, Mrs. Weaver, was objec- tively reasonable as a matter of law. Accordingly, Agent Horiuchi is not entitled to dismissal on the ground of Suprem- acy Clause immunity at this stage in the proceeding. On remand, the district court may conduct an evidentiary hearing to determine whether the evidence supports Agent Horiuchi’s entitlement to immunity under the legal principles applicable to the use of deadly force. We therefore REVERSE and REMAND with directions that the district court reinstate the criminal complaint and information and for further proceed- ings consistent with this opinion.

 

UPDATE #2:

At 1:03:30 in the video at the link, Dale Monroe believes both shots were justified.

At 2:16:50 in the video, Dale Monroe says he would have taken the shot if he would had the ability to take an accurate shot at the time.

Mr. Troy, throughout this entire mess, you folks have been hiding and obfuscating.  You deserve kudos for canning Mr. Weis in a timely manner, although your initial statement was less than clear.

Then the issue of Mr. Monroe popped up and you deleted his page from your website, then the entire instructor roster (who else are you hiding on the payroll over at Troy Assymetric?).  You wait until the end of business then release a link to this video you claim exonerates your man.

You wrote, and I quote:  ” it is indeed Ed Wenger who says he would have shot, had Special Agent Horiuchi not shot first.”

However, when we watch the video, Monroe says he believes both shots were justified and that he would have taken the shot if he’d been able to make an accurate shot.

Mr. Troy, you folks aren’t digging a hole.

You’re digging a well.

I was going to give away thirty brand new Troy mags as door prizes in my classes.

I’m re-evaluating that plan of action.

At the rate you’re going, I think they might make a better bonfire.  The thought that I spent hundreds of dollars with a gun company that employs Lon Horiuchi’s partner from Ruby Ridge makes me physically nauseous.

Lon Horiuchi killed that woman holding a baby.  In cold blood.

Your employee Dale Monroe said he would have taken the same shot and that it was justified.

You asked for input.  Here it is:  Dump Monroe.

 

 

UPDATE #3

Thank you Greg P. for bringing this to our attention.

This helps bring things into focus.

Steve Troy retired from the Massachusetts State Police.

West Springfield, MA (Outdoor Wire Jan 17, 2012) – Steve Troy, president and CEO of Troy® Industries Inc., and a full-time Massachusetts State Trooper, retired last week from the Massachusetts State Police department. Superintendent Colonel Marian McGovern stated: “Your exemplary performance has been noted through positive letters of recognition and appreciation, you can certainly be proud of your achievements here over the years, and your professionalism and integrity will be sorely missed”. Steve recently retired from the U.S. Air Force Space Command, with more than twenty-three years of honorable service.

Over the past nine years, Mr. Troy has not only served his community and state, but has also directed one of the fastest-growing companies in the northeast. With his background as a State Trooper, USF Security Forces Team Chief, Armorer, CQB Weapons Instructor, Sniper, EMT-Tactical, and Eagle Scout, he will now devote his time to expanding and diversifying Troy Industries into new markets, through continued growth and innovative through experience.

 

UPDATE #4

Troy put up an announcement on Facebook this evening.

They are sticking to their man.

I’ll cut and paste it for you:

The accusations that Mr. Monroe would have taken a shot at Vicki Weaver are false. His Congressional testimony affirms that had he a better vantage point, he was prepared to shoot at Kevin Harris, the armed combatant posing an immediate threat to him, his team, and everyone at the scene.

Tragedy lies in the fact that the shot intended for Kevin Harris reached its target, but also struck Vicki Weaver, positioned out of sight, behind a door. For the past 20 years, Mr. Monroe has shared his experiences across the country through many presentations and a television appearance. During these presentations, he explained the mistakes which led up to the tragedy and the valuable lessons learned from the event. While nothing can change what happened that day, Dale’s firsthand account imparts valuable tools to our nation’s law enforcement. I’m confident that his experience at that incident taught him more than the other countless successful missions he completed as an FBI HRT Operator.

It’s easy in an emotionally charged situation where a mother’s life has been taken, to lose sight of the facts. In our most trying times and failures we have an opportunity to rise above and distinguish ourselves to be people of character and honor. I know Dale Monroe to be such a man.

As a Troy Asymmetric instructor, he has the opportunity to prevent future tragedies like Ruby Ridge. We are proud to have him on our team.

-Steve Troy

 

Our rebuttal:

We’re not sure where Mr. Troy got the idea that some people were saying the other snipers would have shot Vicky Weaver, as she stood armed with an infant child as Lon Horiuchi did that day.

We certainly did not say Monroe would have shot Vicky Weaver.

We wrote of his testimony that he would have taken the same shot Horiuchi did if he had had it – a shot that courts have ruled was not justified.

We wrote of his testimony that he believed both shots taken by the scumbag Horiuchi were justified, when courts have held the shots were not justified.

There was no imminent risk of death or great bodily injury to any L.E.O. when Horiuchi fired in cold blood…  or was it hot-blood?  Was it anger over the shooting of the agent by the boy before two other agents shot him down in the back as he ran away.

Oh, what courage on the part of those agents!  The boy, running for his life back to the cabin, gunned down by agents – shot repeatedly in the back.  What great Americans, right?

Steve Troy, a retired Massachusetts State Police officer, is sticking by his guy.  It’s his prerogative.

It’s my prerogative to spread news of his staunch support of a genuine, Grade A jack booted thug at his company as far and wide as I can in the world of gun owners so they may make an informed and educated decision on whether or not they want to help pay the salary of a JBT.

I’ll be burning some “battle mags” tomorrow in honor of his support of jack booted thugs.

I’d invite our readers to submit photos of what they are doing with their Troy Industries gear if they would like.

It’ll be fun.

Congrats, Troy.

You’re now the official company of the Jack Booted Thugs.

Enjoy it, buddy.  You earned it.

31 Responses to Troy stands by their employee, Lon Horiuchi’s partner at Ruby Ridge! UPDATE #4.

  1. WCO on August 21, 2013 at 4:01 pm

    I’ve already sent my email to Troy. Maybe Dale will get the ax before the sun sets.

  2. Mechteacher on August 21, 2013 at 4:15 pm

    Troy should fire the person who hired these two. That person is damageing your company and putting your employees job in damger

  3. jboch on August 21, 2013 at 6:47 pm

    I will guarantee you nothing by Troy Industries will be in my gunsafe by sunrise tomorrow…

  4. dave on August 21, 2013 at 6:53 pm

    I’m using their catalog of products as a checklist to keep out toxic goods.

  5. ken on August 21, 2013 at 10:14 pm

    Troy, you can kiss my white Irish ass. I’ll NEVER buy another product of yours, period. I don’t see any way that you can be rehabilitated. This is just evil on top of stupid confounded by idiocy.

  6. Emma T. on August 22, 2013 at 6:16 am

    Why don’t they hire Jane Fonda (Hanoi Jane) as a spokeswoman and have a complete set of dumba__es.

  7. Pablo C on August 22, 2013 at 8:06 am

    here is the e-mail I sent to Troy’s Sales team.

    Dear Troy Industry Sales,

    While I appreciate the want to get a foothold under the LEO money spigot. I really wonder if it is worth alienating a large percentage of your non-governmental customers?

    Both Jody Weis and Dale Monroe have government careers that are examples of when government can bring down the boot on the public’s neck and get away with it.

    Is this what Troy hopes to be instructing? I am sure there is money in it, and it is great to seek a profit. If not you then it will be someone else, right?

    If this is the direction Troy is going, thank you for the great products you have made, I will not be purchasing them again, I will inform my gun shops that I as a non-LEO find it offensive that they carry such products. I have only purchased Sights and sling mounts so I am sure I am not a big loss in the grand scheme of what LEO training can bring you.

    Sincerely,
    Pablo ……..
    Mesa AZ

  8. JM on August 22, 2013 at 1:57 pm

    Just when you think they’ve solved their “PR” problem…

    This looks like a pattern to me. For the good of their employees, I hope their government sales make up for the loss of their civilian marketplace until these people can find other employment.

    At least there are plenty of alternative manufacturers we can support.

  9. RodInTexas on August 22, 2013 at 8:14 pm

    Lon Horiuchi? You mean that gutless, pos [slurs deleted] bastard that shoots unarmed women who are holding babies in their arms? THAT horiuchi? I would gladly [do unkind things to him] if I ever have the pleasure of crossing his path. Really. I’d [end his reproductive days] if given the chance.

    [Editor: This is a family-friendly place. While some PG language is okay, racial slurs and threats of criminal acts are not. Thanks in advance for conforming to our code of conduct.]

    • jboch on August 22, 2013 at 9:26 pm

      Yeah. That one.

      I kinda feel the same way about him. I’d probably have to leave any room I might meet him in to eliminate the possibility of throwing my life away to give Randy Weaver some level of satisfaction.

  10. Brooks on August 22, 2013 at 9:14 pm

    Mama said, stupid is as stupid does.
    That must explain this situation.

  11. Jeff on August 23, 2013 at 6:38 am

    There are a lot of good options from various manufacturers out there. They will get my money from here on out, Troy will not see a dime.

  12. Just Sayin' on August 23, 2013 at 7:30 am

    This just in: when the jackboots go door-to-door to confiscate our guns and murder our families, they’ll be using Troy products! Proudly!

    • safe1 on August 25, 2013 at 7:39 pm

      Don’t forget who will be training them.

  13. Jeff B. on August 23, 2013 at 8:10 am

    Beyond these two individuals, the fact that Troy Industries sees previous affiliation with these “Law Enforcement” agencies and units as desireable is very telling.

    It tells me that Troy Industries is or wants to be part and parcel of the TPT and the Police State.

    They can do without my few dollars. Simply seeing these guys not employed should not be good enough. We (gun owning, freedom loving, patriots) should be working to see Troy Industries closed up and nothing more than a bad memory in firearms history.

  14. Gene P. on August 23, 2013 at 11:50 am

    ^ Probably shouldn’t be a surprise.
    http://www.theoutdoorwire.com/story/13267910532j1jztm6fxs

  15. Damocles on August 23, 2013 at 1:04 pm

    I find it disturbing that some out there in the blogosphere actually defend this sort of practice. “oh, well it was only unintended consequences, etc”. That sort of attitude is dangerous and offensive. These companies that engage in this type of behavior should be put in the hot seat and either change their ways or be starved of cash and out of existence. We as consumers have the ability to affect change. Ruby Ridge should have never happened and everyone of those federal agents involved should have gone to prison for life.

  16. JM on August 23, 2013 at 3:38 pm

    Steve Troy is certainly not acting like an honorable Eagle Scout now.

    I expect him to blame this controversy on public “anti-police” attitudes. He’ll never realize that many, if not most, of us in the civilian marketplace are either active or former peace officers and military members who actually support the Constitution.

    • J.C. on August 23, 2013 at 9:05 pm

      Amen, and thank you for your service.

      Oathkeepers don’t murder civilians.

      ‘Nuff said.

      • Delta1 on August 28, 2013 at 1:51 pm

        really, cause while in iraq i saw plenty of “oathkeepers” murdering civilians.

  17. Capt'n Ron on August 24, 2013 at 1:32 am

    On another blog, I saw someone post that claimed that comments were from cop haters. I am getting so tired of that old song. We as gun owners police ourselves and do not defend permit holders that do stupid stuff. In fact, we are harder on our own than we are of just casual owners of guns. The reason is that we should know better and we demand it of ourselves. If the LEO community wants respect, it is going to have to be more diligent of policing their own instead of turning a blind eye of attempting to defend bad actors. As far as I am concerned, if you defend a bad act or conveniently fail to notice it, then that act belongs to you. If that makes me a LEO hater, then so be it.
    I know that it is said that they LEO’s have to rely on their counterparts when the going gets rough so they are reluctant to be vocal when one of their own steps over the line. I know. I saw Serpico too. Too bad. If you can’t do your job without wearing jack boots, then either quit or expect to get the criticism you deserve.

  18. Capt'n Ron on August 24, 2013 at 1:38 am

    At any rate, do reduce yourself to crying “cop hater” in an attempt to shut up the criticism much the same way that many of us have become intimidated by the power of the charge of being a “racist”. Quit whining! If a LEO has an particular perspective that we mere mortals may not have, I appreciate the information, but when that guy in Ohio pulled his weapon and manhandled a motorist with a CCW permit, there was another officer present and he did nothing. They are both guilty. The one guy got fired but I understand he is back on the road again with his badge and gun. Where were the criminal charges? There is something really wrong about committing illegal acts under the color of law. There is really something wrong with getting away with it.

  19. ragnar_d on August 24, 2013 at 12:32 pm

    I also loved how Troy got on their high horse about “No other gun company stuck to their principles like we did!” schtick. Apparently they didn’t see where Paul Buffoni of BCM (y’know, one of Troy’s customers) told the Milwaukee PD to go stuff themselves on a very substantial order to said department after their chief went full retard in front of congress.

    http://pistol-training.com/archives/7763

  20. sniperj on August 27, 2013 at 12:28 pm

    Bye Bye Troy! Im done with you…

  21. Sam Spade on August 28, 2013 at 8:37 am

    Dale Monroe and others should be sitting on death row in Idaho or Leavenworth for premeditated murder. Furthermore, Dale Monroe is s chickenshit coward.

  22. Sam Spade on August 28, 2013 at 9:05 am

    He chicken Dale, shot any unarmed women with babies in their arms lately?

  23. Eddie K on August 28, 2013 at 8:26 pm

    Following email send to Troy
    “I have a problem with a sling I bought. Turns out it was made by your company who just hired a murderess thug. He claims he would have took that shot at Ruby Ridge. The one that inadvertently killed that mother holding her child. The one that a court and a congressional investigation determined was way overkill. A scared young child defending the family home and a mother holding a child were murdered that day.And your new employee Mr. Monroe stated on the record he would have took the shot. I would like to return my sling for a refund as it turns my stomach to look at it. It is unused and will remain so. If you will not take it back I will destroy it in the most dishonorable way I can think of. Either way I will pass the word at the range of the jack booted thug you just hired.
    Thanks for your time”

  24. Brian on August 28, 2013 at 10:02 pm

    Troy Industries – Absoluting disgusting behavior and moral position!

    I will no longer buy any of your products and am currently looking to discard the existing ones I do own. It’s a matter of principle not the money I will lose.

    I ask, what country do you live in? What does the constitution and bill of rights state? …you defend this jerk?

    Admit you made a mistake, fire this jerk, then start proving you deserve my business. Good Bye for now

    Former Customer

  25. Sgt E on August 30, 2013 at 2:52 am

    Troy,

    This just hit the Active Military circuit! I am on the elite side of the Marine Corps and have also relayed this info to friends in SOF in 2 other branches. Your accessories will be pulled off my weapon on Tuesday and replaced with your competitor’s product.

    Regards,

    From a III%er and Oathkeeper, a real public SERVANT

  26. Greg Meyer on September 3, 2013 at 8:34 pm

    Anybody, actually, everybody that I know in Law Enforcement, who is honorable would not serve with Mr. Monroe or any participant in the Ruby Ridge tragedy. By your association with Mr. Monroe, you fall into the category of “known by the company you keep. Perhaps if Mr. Monroe had had the courage and integrity to admit his own mistakes and his role, my attitude might soften. But, as it stands, I will not associate myself with your company. Troy does not exist in my world.

  27. Fred Crawford on October 18, 2013 at 12:40 am

    Ran across this by accident. Glad to know about Troy!