Illinois anti-gun Democrats, likely in cahoots with the Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence, have filed HB-4359, which would strip you of your gun rights and send the police to confiscate your firearms and ammunition if your name – not your identity, but your name – appears on the FBI’s “No Fly” database.
Synopsis As Introduced
…Amends the Firearm Owners Identification Card Act. Provides that the Department of State Police has authority to deny an application for or to revoke and seize a Firearm Owner’s Identification Card (FOID card) previously issued under the Act if the Department finds that the applicant or the person to whom the card was issued is or was at the time of issuance a person named on the consolidated Terrorist Watchlist maintained by the Terrorist Screening Center administered by the Federal Bureau of Investigation. …If the person whose FOID card has been revoked fails to comply with the requirements of the Act, the sheriff or law enforcement agency where the person resides shall (rather than may) petition the court for a warrant to search for and seize the person’s FOID card and firearms. Provides that within 30 days after the effective date of the amendatory Act, and by January 31 of each year thereafter, the Department of State Police shall provide written notice of the requirements of this provision to every sheriff and law enforcement agency within the State. Effective immediately.
Emphasis added.
Yes, the terrorist “NO FLY” list. The same list on which Senator Ted Kennedy found himself listed. A secret list kept by the government, created by bureaucrats and political hacks. A list that under this proposed bill, would debar you of your Constitutional right to keep and bear arms. A list containing only names, not identities. A list that has grown from 47,000 when President Obama took office to 700,000 today.
Given President Obama’s willingness to use the IRS, the Attorney General’s Office, and indeed, the entire government bureaucracy against political opponents, we don’t have a lot of confidence in the his regime. Details about the list, who is on it, who adds names to it and why those names are added are all state secrets. Information has leaked out in dribs and drabs and here’s what we do know.
Leaks to the Intercept revealed that the “process” by which people are put on either the no fly list or the terrorist watch list basically involves hunches, and revelations from just a few months ago show that DHS still uses flim flam pseudo science to put people on the list based on hunches that the government laughably calls “predictive judgment,” but which experts have said has no scientific basis whatsoever.
If you want to understand how incredibly wrong this proposal is, you just need to replace “buy guns” with something else, like “the right to assemble” or “the right to use the internet.” It’s easy to say: “What could possibly be the argument for allowing a terrorist suspect to use the internet?” But then you remember that these aren’t actual suspects — they’re just people put on a list by law enforcement with no thorough process, let alone due process to defend themselves or to get off the list. And, of course, being a “suspect” doesn’t mean you’re guilty. Innocent until proven guilty used to actually mean something.
“These are everyday Americans that have nothing to do with terrorism, they wind up on the no-fly list, there’s no due process or any way to get your name removed from it in a timely fashion, and now they’re having their Second Amendment rights being impeded upon…. The majority of the people on the no-fly list are often times people that just basically have the same name as somebody else who doesn’t belong on the no-fly list…. Sometimes you’re only on that list because the FBI wants to talk to you about someone you know, not because you’re a suspect.”
Even the far, far left Huffington Post is highly critical of the list:
The Intercept published a 166-page document outlining the government’s guidelines for placing people on an expansive network of terror watch lists, including the no-fly list. In their report, Jeremy Scahill and Ryan Devereaux highlighted the extremely vague and loosely defined criteria developed by 19 federal agencies, supposedly to fight terrorism.
Using these criteria, government officials have secretly characterized an unknown number of individuals as threats or potential threats to national security. In 2013 alone, 468,749 watch-list nominations were submitted to the National Counterterrorism Center. It rejected only 1 percent of the recommendations.
Critics say the system is bloated and imprecise, needlessly sweeping up thousands of people while simultaneously failing to catch legitimate threats, like Boston Marathon bomber Tamerlan Tsarnaev.
Again, the list contains only names, not identifies. So if “Ted Kennedy” is on the list, then every Ted Kennedy including the former Senator Ted Kennedy, are on the list. And former Senator Ted Kennedy was on the list – and it took him three weeks to get his name off the list. If a powerful long-time U.S. Senator needs three weeks to get his name removed, how long do you think it will take you to get your name removed?
Sen. Kennedy Flagged by No-Fly List
Washington Post
Friday, August 20, 2004; Page A01
U.S. Sen. Edward M. “Ted” Kennedy said yesterday that he was stopped and questioned at airports on the East Coast five times in March because his name appeared on the government’s secret “no-fly” list.
Federal air security officials said the initial error that led to scrutiny of the Massachusetts Democrat should not have happened even though they recognize that the no-fly list is imperfect. But privately they acknowledged being embarrassed that it took the senator and his staff more than three weeks to get his name removed.
Senator Ted Kennedy isn’t the only high profile individual who find his or her name on the list. From TownHall:
Take for example Weekly Standard Senior Writer and Fox News Contributor Steve Hayes, who was put on the no-fly list after a cruise.
Stephen Hayes, a senior writer at The Weekly Standard and a regular Fox News contributor, was informed Tuesday that he had been placed on the Department of Homeland Security’s Terrorist Watchlist.
Hayes, who spoke to POLITICO by phone on Tuesday, suspects that the decision stems from U.S. concerns over Syria. Hayes and his wife recently booked a one-way trip to Istanbul for a cruise, and returned to the U.S., a few weeks later, via Athens.
“I’d be concerned if it was anything more than that,” Hayes said.
Hayes first learned about his status on the watchlist during a trip to Minneapolis a few weeks ago when he was stopped for extra screening.
“When I went online to check in with Southwest, they wouldn’t let me. I figured it was some glitch,” he explained. “Then I got to the airport and went to check in. The woman had a concerned look on her face. She brought over her supervisor and a few other people. Then they shut down the lane I was in, took me to the side, told me I was a selectee and scrawled [something] on my ticket.”
“On my way back. the same thing happened,” he continued. “I got pulled out, they closed down the lane, and did a full pat-down and looked in all parts of my luggage.”
Things got slightly awkward on that return flight, because one of the TSA employees was a frequent Fox News viewer. “He knew I wasn’t an actual terrorist,” Hayes explained, “but it didn’t matter.”
Hayes finally contacted Southwest on Tuesday, ahead of another flight, to ask why he couldn’t check in. A customer service supervisor told him he wasn’t going to be able to get a boarding pass before arriving at the airport.
From everything reporters have been able to discover, you don’t get on the list because of convictions, but based upon:
7 Ways That You (Yes, You) Could End Up On A Terrorist Watch List
1. You could raise “reasonable suspicion” that you’re involved in terrorism. “Irrefutable evidence or concrete facts” are not required.
2. You could post something on Facebook or Twitter that raises “reasonable suspicion.”
3. Or somebody else could just think you’re a potential terror threat.
4. You could be a little terrorist-ish, at least according to someone.
5. Or you could just know someone terrorist-y, maybe.
6. And if you’re in a “category” of people determined to be a threat, your threat status could be “upgraded” at the snap of a finger.
7. Finally, you could just be unlucky.
And just so you remember, here are 72 groups of people that the Obama Administration considers potential “Domestic Terrorists”:
1. Those that talk about “individual liberties”
2. Those that advocate for states’ rights
3. Those that want “to make the world a better place”
4. “The colonists who sought to free themselves from British rule”
5. Those that are interested in “defeating the Communists”
8. Anyone that possesses an “intolerance toward other religions”
9. Those that “take action to fight against the exploitation of the environment and/or animals”
10. “Anti-Gay”
11. “Anti-Immigrant”
12. “Anti-Muslim”
14. “Opposition to equal rights for gays and lesbians”
15. Members of the Family Research Council
16. Members of the American Family Association
18. Members of the American Border Patrol/American Patrol
19. Members of the Federation for American Immigration Reform
20. Members of the Tennessee Freedom Coalition
21. Members of the Christian Action Network
22. Anyone that is “opposed to the New World Order”
23. Anyone that is engaged in “conspiracy theorizing”
24. Anyone that is opposed to Agenda 21
25. Anyone that is concerned about FEMA camps
26. Anyone that “fears impending gun control or weapons confiscations”
28. The sovereign citizen movement
29. Those that “don’t think they should have to pay taxes”
30. Anyone that “complains about bias”
31. Anyone that “believes in government conspiracies to the point of paranoia”
32. Anyone that “is frustrated with mainstream ideologies”
33. Anyone that “visits extremist websites/blogs”
34. Anyone that “establishes website/blog to display extremist views”
35. Anyone that “attends rallies for extremist causes”
36. Anyone that “exhibits extreme religious intolerance”
37. Anyone that “is personally connected with a grievance”
38. Anyone that “suddenly acquires weapons”
39. Anyone that “organizes protests inspired by extremist ideology”
40. “Militia or unorganized militia”
41. “General right-wing extremist”
42. Citizens that have “bumper stickers” that are patriotic or anti-U.N.
43. Those that refer to an “Army of God”
44. Those that are “fiercely nationalistic (as opposed to universal and international in orientation)”
45. Those that are “anti-global”
46. Those that are “suspicious of centralized federal authority”
47. Those that are “reverent of individual liberty”
48. Those that “believe in conspiracy theories”
49. Those that have “a belief that one’s personal and/or national ‘way of life’ is under attack”
51. Those that would “impose strict religious tenets or laws on society (fundamentalists)”
52. Those that would “insert religion into the political sphere”
53. Anyone that would “seek to politicize religion”
54. Those that have “supported political movements for autonomy”
55. Anyone that is “anti-abortion”
56. Anyone that is “anti-Catholic”
57. Anyone that is “anti-nuclear”
60. Those concerned about “illegal immigration”
61. Those that “believe in the right to bear arms”
62. Anyone that is engaged in “ammunition stockpiling”
63. Anyone that exhibits “fear of Communist regimes”
65. Those that are against illegal immigration
66. Those that talk about “the New World Order” in a “derogatory” manner
67. Those that have a negative view of the United Nations
68. Those that are opposed “to the collection of federal income taxes”
69. Those that supported former presidential candidates Ron Paul, Chuck Baldwin and Bob Barr
70. Those that display the Gadsden Flag (“Don’t Tread On Me”)
71. Those that believe in “end times” prophecies
ACTION ITEM:
To call for the disarming of the American people in the face of terrorism is an act of treason!
Kind of lost count, but I think I’m at about 37 or 38 of those items on the checklist.
I don’t think “domestic terrorist” means anything other than “not a good little brownshirt commie SJW”.
This is the perfect illustration of why the FOID Act has got to go.
AMEN!
The FOID card is a BS law from the day it was made law!
Aaron Zelman and I used to talk about the FOID Act and Aaron said it was nothing more than a confiscation list.
I sincerely hope calmer, cooler heads prevail.
If the government starts confiscating guns from people who have done nothing wrong or been convicted of a thing, it’ll just a matter of time until gun owners start shooting back. And the danger of a civil war will ensue.
That won’t go well for anyone.
No, I think reasonable politicians can see that this isn’t going to do anything but make things a lot worse should it pass.
Who will be the hero to step up and say, “NO! I’m not stripping away the rights of law-abiding residents without due process in place!”
Meanwhile, these people need to be removed from office. Let’s see how many we can help find new work come the next round of elections.
12/11/2015 House Filed with the Clerk by Rep. Greg Harris
12/11/2015 House Added Chief Co-Sponsor Rep. Lou Lang
12/11/2015 House Added Chief Co-Sponsor Rep. Deborah Conroy
12/11/2015 House Added Co-Sponsor Rep. Litesa E. Wallace
12/11/2015 House Added Chief Co-Sponsor Rep. Emanuel Chris Welch
12/11/2015 House Added Co-Sponsor Rep. Christian L. Mitchell
12/11/2015 House Added Co-Sponsor Rep. Jaime M. Andrade, Jr.
12/11/2015 House Added Co-Sponsor Rep. Martin J. Moylan
12/11/2015 House Added Co-Sponsor Rep. Cynthia Soto
12/11/2015 House Added Co-Sponsor Rep. Mary E. Flowers
12/11/2015 House Added Co-Sponsor Rep. Anna Moeller
12/11/2015 House Added Co-Sponsor Rep. Kathleen Willis
12/11/2015 House Added Co-Sponsor Rep. John D’Amico
12/11/2015 House Added Co-Sponsor Rep. Sonya M. Harper
12/11/2015 House Added Co-Sponsor Rep. Camille Y. Lilly
Pick off a few gun owners here and there, not much of a fuss for the state of Illinois. Deprive a BUNCH of gun owners of their rights without due process…Class Action Civil Rights Lawsuit? Illinois is already in debt up to Mike Madigan’s earwax. How much more do they want to have to $PEND? And besides, if you LEAVE ILLINOIS for a state without this BS, you can still own a gun there, and the settlement from the civil rights suit can buy you some nice real estate.
I am screwed.
http://www.no-fly-list.com/
Surprised my name isn’t there
Additions to the list: Any Veteran , Any veteran seeking medical treatment with the VETERANS ADMINISTRATION, any veteran not murdered by the VETERAN ADMINISTRATION waiting for a medical appointment. Any veteran that uses his/her DD Dorm 214 to get a concealed carry license.
This is some scary stuff.
Will Rep. Greg Harris volunteer to lead some of these confiscations? Surely he’s willing to do anything he asks others to do, right?
I just sent my State Representative a letter asking her to oppose this bill, and I urge you to do the same.
Contacted mine. He is very pro gun though. He’s not falling for this b.s.
this bill calls for your guns and FOID card to be surrendered if your name ever appears on the NO FLY LIST!
The NO FLY list is a “watch list” and not a “guilty list”. PLUS it contains false names. Obama as brought in over 7 million muslims plus the number that learned a little spanish and crossed the border illegally
So what do all you FOID card followers think of your little FOID card now!
The NRA and ISRA was wrong to ever write and support such a law in the first damn place!